Sheffield climbers - old timers?

[John Broadwell]

I am trying to track down any information about a couple of climbers who
were climbing in the Peak District in the late 1960's and early seventies.

One was the Chief Instructor of Hollowford Training Centre (Now Lindley
Lodge) In Castleton, he was named Rod Brown, he put up a few good aid routes
on limestone in the Winnats and other places until he died finishing a climb
over the loose rubble at the top of Millstone.

The other was his friend "Hoppy" whom I climbed with once or twice when I
too was Chief Instructor in the early seventies at Hollowford Training
Centre and from whom I bought all of Rod's extensive rack of aid climbing
gear, all of which I still have.

I would be interested if anyone knows anything about these two guys and if
Hoppy is still around?

Cheers

John B

[Sean]

Post by John Broadwell
I am trying to track down any information about a couple of climbers who
were climbing in the Peak District in the late 1960's and early seventies.

Hi John,

It pains me to admit it, but this newsgroup is pretty much dead. You may
get lucky, but if not you'll stand a much greater chance in the web-based
forum here:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/

Good luck.
Sean
x

[Champ]

Post by Sean
It pains me to admit it, but this newsgroup is pretty much dead.

ah, I suspected as much. I've just started climbing and thought this
would be a good place (I use newsgroups extensively elsewhere), but
the traffic seems to be minimal.

Why is that? Did this place ever have high volumes?

Post by Sean
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/

Ah, ok, I'll look in there. But web-forums are rubbish to use in
comparison, imo.

[Sean]

Post by Champ
ah, I suspected as much. I've just started climbing and thought this
would be a good place (I use newsgroups extensively elsewhere), but
the traffic seems to be minimal.
Why is that? Did this place ever have high volumes?

I think mainly because the web-forum has been such a huge success, it gets
enormous amounts of traffic and the newsgroup became quieter and quieter as
the other forum became more popular.

Post by Champ
Ah, ok, I'll look in there. But web-forums are rubbish to use in
comparison, imo.

I always thought so too, but I guess now that so many people have broadband
the bandwidth thing isn't an issue. A lot of people have never heard of
Usenet these days, and there seem to be a fair few posters who actually
think its part of Google's website. You've probably met them elsewhere.

Good luck in your search.
Sean
x

[Steve Pardoe]

Hi, Sean & all,

Post by Sean

Post by Champ
ah, I suspected as much. I've just started climbing and thought this
would be a good place (I use newsgroups extensively elsewhere), but
the traffic seems to be minimal.
Why is that? Did this place ever have high volumes?

It certainly did, back in the late 90s and early noughties it was quite
popular, and some of us spent an unconscionable amount of time on it. It
also had quite a nice flavour, with fewer flames than some other groups I
could mention. Best of all, I met most of my climbing partners through
u.r.c (including Sean, IIRC) so that's a plus.

Post by Sean
I think mainly because the web-forum has been such a huge success, it gets
enormous amounts of traffic and the newsgroup became quieter and quieter as
the other forum became more popular.

<snips>

I think another reason is that a lot of people do this kind of thing during
work time, and browser-based access is much more likely to be available in a
workplace. M$ Outlook (as opposed to O.Express) doesn't even have a
newsreader, AFAIK.

Post by Sean
A lot of people have never heard of
Usenet these days, and there seem to be a fair few posters who actually
think its part of Google's website.

Indeed, mention of Usenet generally gets a blank look.

Steve

PS Did you know that Charles Arthur writes (on technology) for the Grauniad
now?

[Champ]

On Mon, 14 May 2007 17:08:09 +0100, "Steve Pardoe"

Post by Steve Pardoe
Hi, Sean & all,

Post by Sean

Post by Champ
ah, I suspected as much. I've just started climbing and thought this
would be a good place (I use newsgroups extensively elsewhere), but
the traffic seems to be minimal.
Why is that? Did this place ever have high volumes?

It certainly did, back in the late 90s and early noughties it was quite
popular, and some of us spent an unconscionable amount of time on it. It
also had quite a nice flavour, with fewer flames than some other groups I
could mention. Best of all, I met most of my climbing partners through
u.r.c (including Sean, IIRC) so that's a plus.

So I'm too late. Curses :-/

Post by Steve Pardoe

Post by Sean
I think mainly because the web-forum has been such a huge success, it gets
enormous amounts of traffic and the newsgroup became quieter and quieter as
the other forum became more popular.

<snips>
I think another reason is that a lot of people do this kind of thing during
work time, and browser-based access is much more likely to be available in a
workplace. M$ Outlook (as opposed to O.Express) doesn't even have a
newsreader, AFAIK.

Well, I guess that's true.

Post by Steve Pardoe

Post by Sean
A lot of people have never heard of
Usenet these days, and there seem to be a fair few posters who actually
think its part of Google's website.

Including a journalist on the Sunday Times, who last weekend asked
Google why they allowed questionable content on 'their newsgroups'!

Post by Steve Pardoe
Indeed, mention of Usenet generally gets a blank look.

Well, I sort of like that, to be honest :-)

My main problem with web-forums is that they don't thread, so it's not
obvious who is replying to who.

[Sean]

Post by Steve Pardoe
Hi, Sean & all,

Ey up. Nice to know I'm not the only one still lurking, watching the
tumbleweeds blow by. :)

Post by Steve Pardoe
Best of all, I met most of my climbing partners through
u.r.c (including Sean, IIRC) so that's a plus.

Still doing the regular NWF meets?
Hah. That was the beginning of the end, when you bowed to pressure to move
your regular 'who's playing out in Warrington' thread off the ng. Little
did anyone know it was the only thing holding the place together.

Post by Steve Pardoe
PS Did you know that Charles Arthur writes (on technology) for the
Grauniad now?

Nope, I didn't. I'll keep an eye out for his byline.

Sean
x

[Steve Pardoe]

Hi, Sean & all,

Post by Sean

Post by Steve Pardoe
Hi, Sean & all,

Ey up. Nice to know I'm not the only one still lurking, watching the
tumbleweeds blow by. :)

Indeed, there goes another one.....

Post by Sean

Post by Steve Pardoe
Best of all, I met most of my climbing partners through
u.r.c (including Sean, IIRC) so that's a plus.

Still doing the regular NWF meets?

In the winter, yes, most Wednesdays. Now that it's summer (hah!) we
generally play outside, such as Helsby a couple of weeks ago, or even
further afield such as the Roaches; plus weekend outings, so we are still in
regular contact and climbing together when we can. Which is nice.

Post by Sean
Hah. That was the beginning of the end, when you bowed to pressure to move
your regular 'who's playing out in Warrington' thread off the ng. Little
did anyone know it was the only thing holding the place together.

Now we communicate by circular e-mails, but it does mean we can safely move
off-topic, such as passing on info about ridiculous cycle lanes, as Arnaud
did, for example ...
http://www.warringtoncyclecampaign.co.uk/facility-of-the-month (ooops!).

Post by Sean

Post by Steve Pardoe
PS Did you know that Charles Arthur writes (on technology) for the
Grauniad now?

Nope, I didn't. I'll keep an eye out for his byline.

Do. I wonder whether he's still climbing?

Laters,

Steve

[Simon Caldwell]

On Tue, 15 May 2007 11:22:54 +0100, "Steve Pardoe"

Post by Steve Pardoe

Post by Sean

Post by Steve Pardoe
PS Did you know that Charles Arthur writes (on technology) for the
Grauniad now?

Nope, I didn't. I'll keep an eye out for his byline.

Do. I wonder whether he's still climbing?

Yes - and he's also part of UKC these days!

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/profile.php?id=92

S

[Steve Pardoe]

Hi, Simon & all,

Post by Simon Caldwell
On Tue, 15 May 2007 11:22:54 +0100, "Steve Pardoe"

Post by Steve Pardoe

Post by Sean

Post by Steve Pardoe
PS Did you know that Charles Arthur writes (on technology) for the
Grauniad now?

Nope, I didn't. I'll keep an eye out for his byline.

Do. I wonder whether he's still climbing?

Yes - and he's also part of UKC these days!
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/profile.php?id=92

Ah, another one over to The Dark Side.

And...

Post by Simon Caldwell
Stop ID cards and the Database State
http://www.no2id.net/

<rant>

Don't even get me started. I've seen this before in your sig, let's hope
Gordon Brown decides to scrap the whole festering nonsense on cost grounds
if nothing else. Would ID cards have prevented 7/7? Er, no. Or Menezes'
being shot? Er, no. That recent £1.8M benefit fraud [1]? Er, no.

I find it amazing that the immigration authorities don't even keep a record
of which passport holders are in the country at any one time by simply
logging you in and out at the border. That would cost almost nothing, and
would flag up when 'visitors' (who wouldn't have ID cards anyway) overstay.

Oh dear, I'm ranting again. Well, I am a Steve.

</rant>

SteveP

[1]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/16/nfraud16.xml

[Rob Stone]

Post by Steve Pardoe
Hi, Simon & all,

Post by Simon Caldwell
Stop ID cards and the Database State
http://www.no2id.net/

<rant>
Don't even get me started.

snippage

Post by Steve Pardoe
Oh dear, I'm ranting again. Well, I am a Steve.
</rant>

nice rant steve :-)

[Mike Clark]

Post by Steve Pardoe
Hi, Simon & all,

Post by Simon Caldwell
On Tue, 15 May 2007 11:22:54 +0100, "Steve Pardoe"

Post by Steve Pardoe

Post by Sean

Post by Steve Pardoe
PS Did you know that Charles Arthur writes (on technology) for the
Grauniad now?

Nope, I didn't. I'll keep an eye out for his byline.

Do. I wonder whether he's still climbing?

Yes - and he's also part of UKC these days!
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/profile.php?id=92

Ah, another one over to The Dark Side.
And...

Well I still keep a watch on this newsgroup having been one of those who
debated and then voted for its formation. Although I have a UKC uid I
don't spend much time on it. I still prefer threaded discussions
accessed via a newsreader to the more cluncky web based forums.

Post by Steve Pardoe

Post by Simon Caldwell
Stop ID cards and the Database State http://www.no2id.net/

<rant>
Don't even get me started. I've seen this before in your sig, let's hope
Gordon Brown decides to scrap the whole festering nonsense on cost grounds
if nothing else. Would ID cards have prevented 7/7? Er, no. Or Menezes'
being shot? Er, no. That recent £1.8M benefit fraud [1]? Er, no.

I agree, there doesn't seem to be much joined up thinking behind what
will be the real consequences of an ID card. Just look at how quickly
criminals have subverted chip and pin to their own ends. If you make
things dependent upon an ID card what will happen is that many ordainary
folk will be inconvenienced whilst sophisticated criminals will exploit
the system to their own advantage.

Post by Steve Pardoe
I find it amazing that the immigration authorities don't even keep a
record of which passport holders are in the country at any one time
by simply logging you in and out at the border. That would cost
almost nothing, and would flag up when 'visitors' (who wouldn't have
ID cards anyway) overstay.

I'm not so convinced of this argument. The US tries to do this and it is
a PITA to get into and out of the country on legitimate business or
leisure travel. In addition it is clear that the USA isn't effective
in this in that it has a large illegal immigrant population that is
reponsible for much of the work in the lower end of the economy.

For the UK the problem is that for our size we are a major hub for
international travel and thus many more people wish to enter and leave
the UK each year. Already there are substantial queues at the passport
control at airports. If you adopted a system of cross-referencing all
entries and exits at all ports of entry/exit you'd need a substantial
increase in the infrastructure and you'd create enormous delays to all
travellers. Higher taxes and more delays, is that what we want?

Post by Steve Pardoe
Oh dear, I'm ranting again. Well, I am a Steve.
</rant>
SteveP
[1]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/16/nfraud16.xml

Mike

[Sean]

Post by Mike Clark
I still prefer threaded discussions
accessed via a newsreader to the more cluncky web based forums.

Threaded discussions make so much more sense it seems very weird to me that
there aren't any web forums that thread in a Usenet stylee.

Even if you read Usenet through Google its a faff to get to see the tree
structure - as 'standard' you just get all the posts in chronological
order, making it hard to follow what's going on half the time.

Ah well, I suppose nobody said progress always has to be forwards. :)

[Martin Carpenter]

Post by Sean
Threaded discussions make so much more sense it seems very weird to
me that there aren't any web forums that thread in a Usenet stylee.

Have you seen www.gmane.org?

This is mostly a mailinglist-web interface (some mail-usenet-web), but it
certainly shows the potential for threaded web-based newsreaders.

[Sean]

Post by Martin Carpenter
This is mostly a mailinglist-web interface (some mail-usenet-web), but it
certainly shows the potential for threaded web-based newsreaders.

It does. I'll not hold my breath waiting for it to catch on with the likes
of UKC though. :)

[Simon Caldwell]

Post by Sean

Post by Mike Clark
I still prefer threaded discussions
accessed via a newsreader to the more cluncky web based forums.

Threaded discussions make so much more sense it seems very weird to me that
there aren't any web forums that thread in a Usenet stylee.

www.ukweatherworld.co.uk gives the option - but it's still quite
cumbersome to use.

S.

[Sean]

Post by Steve Pardoe
Don't even get me started. I've seen this before in your sig, let's hope
Gordon Brown decides to scrap the whole festering nonsense on cost grounds
if nothing else.

You can always hope, but as chancellor he's funded a few IT projects
that "festering nonsense" would be far to rosy a description for.

He's also committed to updating Trident - billions on a weapon we can't
possibly use while our conventional armed forces are hopelessly
overstretched in ill-fitting boots. I could rant myself...



... but I won't.

Cheers all.
Sean
x

[Steve Gray]

Post by Steve Pardoe
Oh dear, I'm ranting again. Well, I am a Steve.

Good to see the honourable tradition is being maintained, Mr P.

[Steve Pardoe]

Post by Steve Gray

Post by Steve Pardoe
Oh dear, I'm ranting again. Well, I am a Steve.

Good to see the honourable tradition is being maintained, Mr P.

Good to hear from you! How's tricks?

Post by Steve Gray
--
Steve "Steve" Gray

That's another honourable tradition, too ;-)

S

[Steve Gray]

Post by Steve Pardoe

Post by Steve Gray

Post by Steve Pardoe
Oh dear, I'm ranting again. Well, I am a Steve.

Good to see the honourable tradition is being maintained, Mr P.

Good to hear from you! How's tricks?

Not bad, thanks. Not getting much climbing done though, hence the lack
of participation here.

Baby #4 is on the way, so I don't expect that'll change in the near
future ;)

[Steve Pardoe]

"Simon Caldwell" <***@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
<steve p>>>Do. I wonder whether [Charles Arthur] is still climbing?

Post by Simon Caldwell
Yes - and he's also part of UKC these days!
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/profile.php?id=92

...and today he writes in the Grauniad about....

Post by Simon Caldwell
Stop ID cards and the Database State
http://www.no2id.net/

So get yerself a copy (Technology section p6).

S "serendipity" P

[Sean]

Post by Steve Pardoe
So get yerself a copy (Technology section p6).

Righto. :)

[Tony Buckley]

Post by Steve Pardoe
I think another reason is that a lot of people do this kind of thing
during work time, and browser-based access is much more likely to be
available in a workplace. M$ Outlook (as opposed to O.Express) doesn't
even have a newsreader, AFAIK.

That was what eventually took me away, changing PCs at work. These days I
just look in now and then from home but I too have gone over to the dark
side and post (insert your own appropriate stylistic adjective here. I'd
choose 'occasionally'; sadly the more creative side of my postings have
either been drowned in the ceaseless babble on UKC or drummed out of me by
being routinely so busy at work I wonder sometimes how I ever had the time
to have an imagination, still less express it. My, what a long
parenthetical inclusion this has become!) on UKC.

Charles Arthur doesn't just write for the Grauniad, he edits their
technology section and also maintains an interesting blog; climbing doesn't
feature, leastways it hasn't thus far. But what do we know of climbing, who
only climbing know?

And I passed the regards of the cycle facility fan club, north west section
onto its originator who works at the same Lab I do. He's keen to encourage
submissions should anyone spot anything.

T.

[Sean]

Post by Tony Buckley
And I passed the regards of the cycle facility fan club, north west
section onto its originator who works at the same Lab I do.

Cool, maybe you could pass on my regards too, its excellent work. :o)
Ironically, I found his site through a post on UKC - was that you?

Post by Tony Buckley
He's keen to encourage submissions should anyone spot anything.

I'll bear that in mind if i see anything suitably silly. (The standard on
that site is pretty high though).

Sean
x