Edinburgh International Climbing Arena (EICA) at Ratho

[Chris Malcolm]

Previously known as the Adventure Centre, renamed the Edinburgh
International Climbing Arena after the takeover by Edinburgh Leisure,
this is finally opening to the public after sundry delays on Friday
25th May. It has in fact been open to climbers with restricted
facilities and hours for several weeks, and is now closed pending the
final official opening.

Their official web site also seems to be afflicted with delays, since
it doesn't yet know about this opening :-)

http://www.edinburghleisure.info/

The details can be found in this Edinburgh Leisure newsletter, which
seems to be accurate apart from the spelling of "renovations: :-)

http://www.edinburghleisure.co.uk/list-291

Note that that this opening weekend of 25-28 May features all sorts of
special fun events for kids, which some grown ups may prefer to avoid
:-)

As a great enthusiast for this project I'm doing my bit to improve the
publicity for this opening by advertising their Aerial Assault Course,
previously known before Edinburgh Leisure's takeover as the Skyride of
the Adventure Centre. Although it tends to be seen by parents as
something for the kids, I've taken several older adults round it, all
of whom have been surprised and impressed by how much they enjoyed it.

So here you go, a photographic tour of the Aerial Assault:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chris_malcolm/sets/72157600232754720/

(It should be noted that although some of these photographs were taken
on the Skyride itself (as it then was), taking a camera on the Aerial
Assault would require special permission and prior arrangement which
would probably require some attestation of both photographic and rope
access skills, and the new "improved safety facilities" probably means
is no longer possible anyway :-)

Apart from the generally poor publicity which this place has always
suffered from, it has also suffered from poor public service
access. The nearest bus for example is the Lothian Busses X48 which
runs from Waverley to Ratho. You have to get off at Ratho Bridge and
take a twenty minute walk along the unsignposted north side canal path
to the place. It is to be hoped that by the time they re-open on the
25th May the stairs up from the canal path to the Arena will have a
more encouraging signpost than the "Construction Site! Keep Out!
Danger! Falling Rocks!" with which they have been encouraging canal
path entrants to date :-)

Bus access will improve, because they have surfaced the car park and
built a bus stop in it, and have got agreement for the X48 service to
be extended to it, but AFAIK there isn't yet a date for when that will
start operating.

Cyclists may like to know that you can cycle out to it on the Union
Canal path from Fountainbridge in Edinburgh.

[Rob G]

Post by Chris Malcolm
Previously known as the Adventure Centre, renamed the Edinburgh
International Climbing Arena after the takeover by Edinburgh Leisure,
this is finally opening to the public after sundry delays on Friday
25th May. It has in fact been open to climbers with restricted
facilities and hours for several weeks, and is now closed pending the
final official opening.
Their official web site also seems to be afflicted with delays, since
it doesn't yet know about this opening :-)
http://www.edinburghleisure.info/
The details can be found in this Edinburgh Leisure newsletter, which
seems to be accurate apart from the spelling of "renovations: :-)
http://www.edinburghleisure.co.uk/list-291
Note that that this opening weekend of 25-28 May features all sorts of
special fun events for kids, which some grown ups may prefer to avoid
:-)
As a great enthusiast for this project I'm doing my bit to improve the
publicity for this opening by advertising their Aerial Assault Course,
previously known before Edinburgh Leisure's takeover as the Skyride of
the Adventure Centre. Although it tends to be seen by parents as
something for the kids, I've taken several older adults round it, all
of whom have been surprised and impressed by how much they enjoyed it.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/chris_malcolm/sets/72157600232754720/
(It should be noted that although some of these photographs were taken
on the Skyride itself (as it then was), taking a camera on the Aerial
Assault would require special permission and prior arrangement which
would probably require some attestation of both photographic and rope
access skills, and the new "improved safety facilities" probably means
is no longer possible anyway :-)
Apart from the generally poor publicity which this place has always
suffered from, it has also suffered from poor public service
access. The nearest bus for example is the Lothian Busses X48 which
runs from Waverley to Ratho. You have to get off at Ratho Bridge and
take a twenty minute walk along the unsignposted north side canal path
to the place. It is to be hoped that by the time they re-open on the
25th May the stairs up from the canal path to the Arena will have a
more encouraging signpost than the "Construction Site! Keep Out!
Danger! Falling Rocks!" with which they have been encouraging canal
path entrants to date :-)
Bus access will improve, because they have surfaced the car park and
built a bus stop in it, and have got agreement for the X48 service to
be extended to it, but AFAIK there isn't yet a date for when that will
start operating.
Cyclists may like to know that you can cycle out to it on the Union
Canal path from Fountainbridge in Edinburgh.
--
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

I live relatively close to the EICA and have recently seen a new local
bus service on the Newbridge / Wilkieston road (B7030). So 'new' that
they are only now putting up bus stops and I'm not finding anything in
Google on the service. The bus is going to St John's Hospital which I
did notice but I didn't register the company running it
unfortunately. As there is a good bus services to both Newbridge and
Wilkieston this looks useful.

I'll see if I can find some more information on this and post it when
I do.

Rob

[Sam Wilson]

Post by Chris Malcolm
http://www.flickr.com/photos/chris_malcolm/sets/72157600232754720/

In concept this is remarkably like a place near Bourg St.Maurice except
that that is constructed on a steep hillside in a forest and you have to
do all your safety yourself (find an orange cable, clip on your two
orange carabiners on cowtails; find a blue cable, clip on your blue
pulley and then the orange crabs behind; never take both crabs off at
once). You'd never get it past the safety regs here.

Sam

[Sean]

Post by Sam Wilson
In concept this is remarkably like a place near Bourg St.Maurice except
that that is constructed on a steep hillside in a forest and you have to
do all your safety yourself <snip> You'd never get it past the safety

regs here.

There's nothing in any regulations to prevent it here, its basically just
indoor via ferrata. I guess what may cause a problem is getting insurance
(with economically feasible premiums).

It would mean you'd have to require the customers either to be 'competent'
or keep them under close supervision though. This is only the same as for
the climbing, but unlike the climbing experienced people aren't the target
market.

Sean
x

[Chris Malcolm]

Post by Sam Wilson

Post by Sam Wilson
In concept this is remarkably like a place near Bourg St.Maurice except
that that is constructed on a steep hillside in a forest and you have to
do all your safety yourself <snip> You'd never get it past the safety

regs here.
There's nothing in any regulations to prevent it here, its basically just
indoor via ferrata. I guess what may cause a problem is getting insurance
(with economically feasible premiums).
It would mean you'd have to require the customers either to be 'competent'
or keep them under close supervision though. This is only the same as for
the climbing, but unlike the climbing experienced people aren't the target
market.

In the EICA Ratho Aerial Assault (previously Skyride) the harnesses
are secured to the safety trolleys by lockable carabiners done up with
a spanner. It's hard to imagine how someone could become detached &
fall. As to getting into difficulties, there's a parallel free track
for use by staff on which staff can move very rapidly to someone in
trouble. Don't know if it's a requirement, but there tend to be staff
close at hand on the track if there's anyone a bit wobbly going round
it. From the viewpoint of an amateur student of rope access technology
the whole thing looks to be of the highest professional standards.

[Sean]

Post by Chris Malcolm
From the viewpoint of an amateur student of rope access technology
the whole thing looks to be of the highest professional standards.

I wasn't suggesting otherwise for a moment. I was commenting on the Bourg
St.Maurice installation Sam mentioned, which does depend on a degree of
competence from the user. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

Post by Chris Malcolm
As to getting into difficulties, there's a parallel free track
for use by staff on which staff can move very rapidly to someone
in trouble.

Cool, I wondered what the arrangements were for rescue. (Which in this case
I guess covers a spectrum from a full-on medical emergency down to a bit of
a gentle chivvy and some reassurance.)

Sean
x

[Sam Wilson]

Post by Sam Wilson

Post by Sam Wilson
In concept this is remarkably like a place near Bourg St.Maurice except
that that is constructed on a steep hillside in a forest and you have to
do all your safety yourself <snip> You'd never get it past the safety

regs here.
There's nothing in any regulations to prevent it here, its basically just
indoor via ferrata. I guess what may cause a problem is getting insurance
(with economically feasible premiums).

Sorry, I was lumping insurance and safety together. The BStM one is
outdoors and more like an adventure playground 30 feet up in the trees.

Post by Sam Wilson
It would mean you'd have to require the customers either to be 'competent'
or keep them under close supervision though. This is only the same as for
the climbing, but unlike the climbing experienced people aren't the target
market.

Indeed. The BStM staff are very good at equipping and briefing you and
then they follow their group round on the ground. I have seen them
climbing up to rescue people who get into difficulties. The setup does
cater for complete novices (the course gets harder and higher as you go,
with bale-out points for the less able).

Sam

[Sean]

Post by Sam Wilson
Indeed. The BStM staff are very good at equipping and briefing you and
then they follow their group round on the ground. I have seen them
climbing up to rescue people who get into difficulties. The setup does
cater for complete novices (the course gets harder and higher as you go,
with bale-out points for the less able).

That sounds really good. :o)

[Zimmy]

Thanks for that, would never have known about it otherwise!

I think lack of publicity is what killed the last iteration of it too.

Z

Post by Chris Malcolm
Previously known as the Adventure Centre, renamed the Edinburgh
International Climbing Arena after the takeover by Edinburgh Leisure,
this is finally opening to the public after sundry delays on Friday
25th May. It has in fact been open to climbers with restricted
facilities and hours for several weeks, and is now closed pending the
final official opening.
Their official web site also seems to be afflicted with delays, since
it doesn't yet know about this opening :-)
http://www.edinburghleisure.info/
The details can be found in this Edinburgh Leisure newsletter, which
seems to be accurate apart from the spelling of "renovations: :-)
http://www.edinburghleisure.co.uk/list-291
Note that that this opening weekend of 25-28 May features all sorts of
special fun events for kids, which some grown ups may prefer to avoid
:-)
As a great enthusiast for this project I'm doing my bit to improve the
publicity for this opening by advertising their Aerial Assault Course,
previously known before Edinburgh Leisure's takeover as the Skyride of
the Adventure Centre. Although it tends to be seen by parents as
something for the kids, I've taken several older adults round it, all
of whom have been surprised and impressed by how much they enjoyed it.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/chris_malcolm/sets/72157600232754720/
(It should be noted that although some of these photographs were taken
on the Skyride itself (as it then was), taking a camera on the Aerial
Assault would require special permission and prior arrangement which
would probably require some attestation of both photographic and rope
access skills, and the new "improved safety facilities" probably means
is no longer possible anyway :-)
Apart from the generally poor publicity which this place has always
suffered from, it has also suffered from poor public service
access. The nearest bus for example is the Lothian Busses X48 which
runs from Waverley to Ratho. You have to get off at Ratho Bridge and
take a twenty minute walk along the unsignposted north side canal path
to the place. It is to be hoped that by the time they re-open on the
25th May the stairs up from the canal path to the Arena will have a
more encouraging signpost than the "Construction Site! Keep Out!
Danger! Falling Rocks!" with which they have been encouraging canal
path entrants to date :-)
Bus access will improve, because they have surfaced the car park and
built a bus stop in it, and have got agreement for the X48 service to
be extended to it, but AFAIK there isn't yet a date for when that will
start operating.
Cyclists may like to know that you can cycle out to it on the Union
Canal path from Fountainbridge in Edinburgh.
--
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

[Zimmy]

Post by Zimmy
Thanks for that, would never have known about it otherwise!
I think lack of publicity is what killed the last iteration of it too.

To be fair, I received a tiny little leaflet with the Herald & Post
yesterday evening, which I would have probably thrown away with the rest of
the junk had I not recognised the picture from the website.

Z

[Sean]

Post by Chris Malcolm
Previously known as the Adventure Centre, renamed the Edinburgh
International Climbing Arena after the takeover by Edinburgh Leisure,
this is finally opening to the public after sundry delays on Friday
25th May.

Looks good, I hope it gets more support this time around..

Sean
x

[C R Fishwick]

Post by Chris Malcolm
Previously known as the Adventure Centre, renamed the Edinburgh
International Climbing Arena after the takeover by Edinburgh Leisure,
this is finally opening to the public after sundry delays on Friday
25th May. It has in fact been open to climbers with restricted
facilities and hours for several weeks, and is now closed pending the
final official opening.

And costs a bloody fortune! The problem is the taxpayer pays! Oh sorry,
forgot the Scots are paying for it!

As for International! A real propoganda exercise to say the bloody least!

[Duncan Gray]

Post by C R Fishwick

Post by Chris Malcolm
Previously known as the Adventure Centre, renamed the Edinburgh
International Climbing Arena after the takeover by Edinburgh Leisure,
this is finally opening to the public after sundry delays on Friday
25th May. It has in fact been open to climbers with restricted
facilities and hours for several weeks, and is now closed pending the
final official opening.

And costs a bloody fortune! The problem is the taxpayer pays! Oh sorry,
forgot the Scots are paying for it!
As for International! A real propoganda exercise to say the bloody least!

Why not International? I attended a couple of World Championship events at
Ratho before its redevelopment.

I take it you've spoken out against Wembley, the Millennium Dome and the
Olympic Games as well.

[Sam Nelson]

Post by Duncan Gray
Why not International? I attended a couple of World Championship events at
Ratho before its redevelopment.

How does having the word `International' in the title help?

Post by Duncan Gray
I take it you've spoken out against Wembley, the Millennium Dome and the
Olympic Games as well.

All three were, are, or will be a complete and utter waste of money, time,
and effort, certainly.

[Peter Clinch]

Post by Sam Nelson
How does having the word `International' in the title help?

Not particularly, but OTOH I can't see it's a /problem/. It is of a
size and (so I' told) standard so as to be an international benchmark of
the type, so why go to the trouble of moaning about using the word?

Pete.

[Sam Nelson]

Post by Peter Clinch

Post by Sam Nelson
How does having the word `International' in the title help?

Not particularly, but OTOH I can't see it's a /problem/. It is of a
size and (so I' told) standard so as to be an international benchmark of
the type, so why go to the trouble of moaning about using the word?

It carries with it an air of self-importance, pomposity, and positive spin.

[Peter Clinch]

Post by Sam Nelson

Post by Peter Clinch

Post by Sam Nelson
How does having the word `International' in the title help?

Not particularly, but OTOH I can't see it's a /problem/. It is of a
size and (so I' told) standard so as to be an international benchmark of
the type, so why go to the trouble of moaning about using the word?

It carries with it an air of self-importance, pomposity, and positive spin.

But where you've got something that size with that much decent effort
behind it it's entirely possible that it's /actually/ important, rather
than deluding itself. In which case it isn't pompous, it's earned.

I won't comment further, not having played there, but assuming it's a
jumped up attempt to make something crappy sound better than it is does
not, AFAICT, seem justified.

And it's stupid to /undersell/ yourself.

Pete.

[Sam Nelson]

Post by Peter Clinch
And it's stupid to /undersell/ yourself.

Oh, I dunno. My relatively limited experience of rock-climbers (my power-
weight ratio is all wrong for it---I blame my grandparents) leads me to
conclude that the ones that make a fuss are the wasters, and the ones that
don't are worth listening to.

This isn't a bad rule of thumb is other walks of life either.

[Chris Malcolm]

Post by Sam Nelson

Post by Peter Clinch
And it's stupid to /undersell/ yourself.

Oh, I dunno. My relatively limited experience of rock-climbers (my power-
weight ratio is all wrong for it---I blame my grandparents) leads me to
conclude that the ones that make a fuss are the wasters, and the ones that
don't are worth listening to.

That's true of some climbers, but there have always been a surprising
number of highly articulate eccentrics among climbers. Doug Haston for
example was famously and characteristically dour, but some of his
climbing partners were rather good writers as well as climbers. If you
hang around on mountain summits you'll meet many more intellectuals,
academics, artists, writers, etc. than you will in your local
gymnasium.

With respect to the Edinburgh International Climbing Arena, however,
it was designed to attract custom from a much wider clientele than
just the old-time bothy-dossing rock tigers. It has office conference
and shop space to sell, and a variety of gym-type equipment for
fitness and other training, in addition to which the modern indoor
climbing wall has also created its own specific enthusiasts and sport.

One of the interesting ideas of the original founders was to exploit
these "more than just an indoor climbing wall" aspects in order to
finance a much grander facility than just a bigger and better indoor
climbing wall.

IMHO they succeeded. It *is* impressively grand, enough so to have
attracted a number of international events and fully deserve the
"international" in its name.

[Richard Tobin]

Post by Peter Clinch
And it's stupid to /undersell/ yourself.

Why does it have to be sold at all?

-- Richard

[Tim Bradshaw]

Post by Richard Tobin
Why does it have to be sold at all?

It needs to attract paying custom so we don't end up funding all of it,
just some of it.

[Peter Clinch]

Post by Richard Tobin
Why does it have to be sold at all?

A fairly general question... for a suitably general answer, perhaps
start here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics

Pete.

[Sam Nelson]

Post by Peter Clinch

Post by Richard Tobin
Why does it have to be sold at all?

A fairly general question... for a suitably general answer, perhaps
start here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics

Stuff that's good sells itself. Any good builder, plumber, joiner,
electrician, plasterer, decorator, etc., can get a life's work ouy
of word-of-mouth. People ask hereabouts for recommendations all the
time.

[Peter Clinch]

Post by Sam Nelson
Stuff that's good sells itself. Any good builder, plumber, joiner,
electrician, plasterer, decorator, etc., can get a life's work ouy
of word-of-mouth. People ask hereabouts for recommendations all the
time.

But they're in short supply and are actually quite necessary,
whereas recreational climbing centres aren't and aren't. So trying
to compare EICA to a good plumber really doesn't score you too many
Bright Points.

People will beat a path to a good plumber because it makes a lot
more sense than having your staurated ceilings collapse. Leisure
pursuits aren't quite as big a pull on people's attention...

Pete.

[Mike Dickson]

Post by Sam Nelson
Stuff that's good sells itself.

That is simply nonsense. Stuff that is demonstrably shit sells by the
barrowload because people are inherently too lazy to think for
themselves and let advertising do their thinking for them. How else
could McDonalds sell anything?

[Sam Nelson]

Post by Mike Dickson

Post by Sam Nelson
Stuff that's good sells itself.

That is simply nonsense. Stuff that is demonstrably shit sells by the
barrowload

These two facts are not mutually exclusive.

[Tim Bradshaw]

Post by Sam Nelson
Stuff that's good sells itself. Any good builder, plumber, joiner,
electrician, plasterer, decorator, etc., can get a life's work ouy
of word-of-mouth. People ask hereabouts for recommendations all the
time.

All those trades are some kind of weird special case. I remember
reading why it happens but I forget. But the fact that it's almost
impossible to find (say) a plumber tells you something very odd is
happening.

[David M]

Chris Malcolm wrote in ed.general
about: Edinburgh International Climbing Arena (EICA) at Ratho

Post by Chris Malcolm
http://www.flickr.com/photos/chris_malcolm/sets/72157600232754720/

Hey, that looks fun, I really must pay a visit at some point! :-)

Post by Chris Malcolm
Apart from the generally poor publicity which this place has always
suffered from, it has also suffered from poor public service
access.

You're absolutely spot-on there, and I'm convinced that that will have
paid a significant part in its former troubles. Sadly, there appears to
be an element of outdoor leisure organisers who just seem to assume that
everybody has a car (ignoring of course the fact that many people who
are into outdoors activities are also often the same people who are a
bit more sensitive to environmental issues themselves). Once you've
tooled yourself up with expensive climbing or cycling kit, you don't
always have money to spend on a car, particularly amongst younger
participants.. Another prime example is the 7 Stanes MTB trails in the
Borders and D&G. There really need to be bus services serving these
sites with provision for taking bikes.

Post by Chris Malcolm
The nearest bus for example is the Lothian Busses X48 which
runs from Waverley to Ratho. You have to get off at Ratho Bridge and
take a twenty minute walk along the unsignposted north side canal path
to the place. It is to be hoped that by the time they re-open on the
25th May the stairs up from the canal path to the Arena will have a
more encouraging signpost than the "Construction Site! Keep Out!
Danger! Falling Rocks!" with which they have been encouraging canal
path entrants to date :-)
Bus access will improve, because they have surfaced the car park and
built a bus stop in it, and have got agreement for the X48 service to
be extended to it, but AFAIK there isn't yet a date for when that will
start operating.

Good! I am glad to hear that they will incorporate bus access (and
upgrade the connection with the canal towpath - needs a ramp for bikes,
though). It has to be said that the connection between the Council and
Lothian Buses does often pay off: we have a much better bus service,
linking major trip attractors than many other equivalent cities.

Post by Chris Malcolm
Cyclists may like to know that you can cycle out to it on the Union
Canal path from Fountainbridge in Edinburgh.

Indeedy, and I'm sure there will be folk who combine the two activities
for a 'double whammy' dose of exercise. Access (and signposting) from
the canal does need to be improved, though.


David.